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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 5, 2013 23:44:14 GMT 1
there seams to be a lot of conflicting history on the origins of this brand.
and from what Mr s20 on here has said about it, most of the wiki entry is wrong.
so... be cool to get some truths out.
and rewrite the wiki too, if it's inaccurate
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 6, 2013 0:04:30 GMT 1
There doesn't seem to be much point in correcting Wikipedia. Pretty soon someone comes along and mucks it up again. There's always too much USA viewpoint bias to it too.
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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 6, 2013 0:11:08 GMT 1
well be good to have it written here at least. oh. and check your PMs  |
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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 6, 2013 21:44:24 GMT 1
ok. so i stole borrowed this piece form here www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/History/history/index-e.htmlNissan's history goes back to the Kaishinsha Co., an automobile factory started by Masujiro Hashimoto in Tokyo's Azabu-Hiroo district in 1911. Hashimoto was a pioneer in Japan's automotive industry at its inception and throughout its initial years of struggle. In 1914, a box-type small passenger car was completed based on his own design, and in the following year the car made its debut on the market under the name of Dat Car. It is a well-known story that the name Dat represents the first letters of the family names of Hashimoto's three principal backers: Kenjiro Den, Rokuro Aoyama and Meitaro Takeuchi. Jitsuyo Jidosha Co., Ltd., another predecessor of Nissan, was established in Osaka in 1919 to manufacture Gorham-style three-wheeled vehicles, designed by the American engineer William R. Gorham. The company imported machine tools, components and materials from the U.S., and thus was said to be one of the most modern automobile factories. Kaishinsha Co. and Jitsuyo Jidohsa Co. merged in 1926 to form Dat Jidosha Seizo Co., which, in 1931, became affiliated with Tobata Casting, a company founded earlier by Aikawa. That would lead two years later to the establishment of Nissan Motor Co. In 1936, Nissan purchased design plans and plant facilities from Graham-Paige Motors Corp. of the U.S. for the manufacture of passenger cars and trucks. As the signs of war grew stronger, however, production emphasis shifted from small-size Datsun passenger cars to military trucks. During the war, Nissan also manufactured engines for the army's planes and for motor torpedo boats. Although the Yokohama Plant had escaped damage during the air raids, over one-half of the plant was requisitioned by the Occupation Forces for approximately ten years after the war. Nissan was also handicapped in the early postwar period by the fact that many leading auto dealerships, previously affiliated with the old Nissan network, switched to Toyota after the dissolution of Japan Motor Vehicle Distribution Co., Ltd., which had monopolized vehicle distribution during the war. Nissan resumed production of Nissan trucks in 1945 and Datsun passenger cars in 1947. There was constant labor-management strife in those years, and Nissan suffered a prolonged 100-day strike in 1953. Serious reflection on that bitter experience gave birth to modern labor-management relations based on mutual trust. In a move to recover from the technological vacuum of the wartime years, Nissan concluded a technical tie-up with Austin Motor Co., Ltd. of the U.K. in 1952, and rolled the first Austin off the line one year later. In 1958, one of the two Datsun 210 cars entered in the Australian Rally, one of the most grueling races in the world, and captured its class championship. Nissan was the first automaker in Japan to receive the annual Deming Prize for engineering excellence in 1960. And through this period, Nissan was steadily putting in place a strong organization to support the company's next stage of dramatic growth. The 1959 Bluebird and the 1960 Cedric captivated Japanese car buyers and quickened the pace of motorization in Japan. The Sunny that debuted in 1966 heralded the advent of the "my car" era in Japan, and was a major driving force behind the rapid growth of the small-car market. In preparation for the liberalization of capital investment in Japan, Nissan brought on line two state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities, the Oppama Plant in 1962 and the Zama Plant in 1965. In 1966,Nissan merged with Prince Motor Co., Ltd., adding the renowned Skyline and Gloria models to its product lineup and incorporating an outstanding engineering staff that continued the excellent tradition of Nakajima and Tachikawa Aircraft Companies, previously manufacturers of distinguished aircraft engines. Over the years, Nissan has lived up to its reputation for excellence in engineering by playing a pioneering role in many fields of advanced technology. With the aim of improving fuel economy, Nissan has developed a variety of weight-reducing materials, such as high-tensile steel sheet for body panels, and has also created sophisticated engine management systems for controlling combustion. In addition, Nissan has also been a forerunner in developing and using CAD/CAM systems and industrial robots. |
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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 6, 2013 22:32:19 GMT 1
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 7, 2013 0:00:13 GMT 1
But this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The company was actually called Kaishinsha ( without the 'w' ), but somebody - somewhere - a long time ago started calling it ''K waishinsha'' and it stuck. Now even the english language part of Nissan Global is repeating it. I've seen photos 'translated' ( altered ) to fit the mis-spelling too..... ''Kwaishinsha'' is just not a possible company name for Taisho era Japan. It just doesn't work in the original Japanese. The most trustworthy of Japanese automotive historians get it right, but there's a parallel thread that's been getting it wrong for years and it's just unbelievable that nobody picks up on it. Can you imagine serious historians talking about ''Porosche'', for example...? |
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 7, 2013 0:04:49 GMT 1
It's good, but it's still riddled with huge ( and somewhat bizarre ) mistakes, and it needs a good editor. It flatters to deceive as a definitive and comprehensive source, but it's not. Look at the sections on the CSP311 Silvia, C10 Skyline and Prince R380 for example. All over the place.... |
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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 7, 2013 8:40:31 GMT 1
the early datsun site does mention that they welcome revisions and relise that they have got stuff wrong before.
they have an email address for that.
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Post by gainsb1 on Jan 7, 2013 11:09:59 GMT 1
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 7, 2013 11:29:18 GMT 1
the early datsun site does mention that they welcome revisions... I've sent numerous e-mails to them and never got a reply, and the mistakes are still there. Here's an example. Just one of many: He talks about the S20 engine in the PGC10 and KPGC10, but then lists the specs as follows: Model - S10 DOHC 6 Cylinder Capacity - 1988cc Bore & Stroke - 82x83mm Power - 160hp@7000rpm Torque - 180ft/lb@5600rpm Compression - 9.5 : 1 Carburettors - Triple Weber 40DCOE dual throat side draught Final Drive - 3.7 : 1 Engine type was S20 not S10 ( if it's just a typo, why never noticed and corrected? ), capacity was 1989cc not 1988cc, bore and stroke was 82 x 62.8mm not 82 x 83mm and carburettors were triple Mikuni N40PHH not triple Weber 40DCOE. Final drive ratio was 4.44:1 ( in an R192 with plate LSD ) not 3.7:1. See what I mean? And that's just one particular example. I've seen these specs reproduced and repeated elsewhere too. A guy was writing an article about one of my cars, and used earlydatsun.com for some of his research. Despite me giving him a spec sheet for the car he used data from that site, and of course it conflicted. I had to show him factory documents to convince him of the truth. That's the trouble with 'one-man' self-published and self-edited websites. Without peer-group critique they end up believing the echoes of their own mistakes. It's a trap that we can all fall into if we are not careful. earlydatsun.com would be a fantastic resource, but it lets itself down on some of the smaller details. |
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 7, 2013 11:35:31 GMT 1
What a GREAT site. So what if there are some mistakes.... most people (inc. me) would not know but will just revel in the pictures, text and it's simplicity to navigate. There it is. That's what we are up against. Basically, 'Datsun' lovers are just happy to see pretty pictures....  |
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Post by Damien4884 on Jan 7, 2013 12:35:00 GMT 1
What a GREAT site. So what if there are some mistakes.... most people (inc. me) would not know but will just revel in the pictures, text and it's simplicity to navigate. There it is. That's what we are up against. Basically, 'Datsun' lovers are just happy to see pretty pictures.... Perhaps, if you have the time and inclination, you could do a write up for us to have here, like a definitive guide and sort of have a little piece written about each model in the Individual models discussed section with a new topic outlining the history of datsun? Then it can't be edited apart from by you or the moderator team? |
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s20
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Post by s20 on Jan 7, 2013 12:59:28 GMT 1
Perhaps, if you have the time and inclination, you could do a write up for us to have here, like a definitive guide and sort of have a little piece written about each model in the Individual models discussed section with a new topic outlining the history of datsun? Then it can't be edited apart from by you or the moderator team? I don't think I've got the time or the inclination ( let alone the data...! ) to write any sort of definitive guide on individual models, except perhaps for the particular models that I have a deep personal interest in. Like WC Fields, I might find it interesting to look at the elephant in the zoo, but it doesn't mean I want to take it home with me. To be honest I'd rather be out in the garage spinning sockets.... The Nissan Global version of 'Datsun History' ( ahem, Nissan History ) is good enough for jazz if we can avoid the mistake of putting a 'w' in Kaishinsha. The early mergers and takeovers are a bit more complicated than they make it sound, but it's better than many other versions that are out there. Actually there are some really good timeline graphics in some 1960s / 70s Nissan company history books that I've got, and it might be worth me taking a shot at translating these for use here. It's easier to show those early mergers / name changes etc historically with the use of graphics than it is with plain old text. Bear with me..... |
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Post by Al Ramone on Jan 7, 2013 21:52:42 GMT 1
please do. and i think Damien is asking for a few paragraphs as and when, on anything you care to write up on. you don't need to sit down and write a book right now! ;D all help and info greatly recived. |
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Post by mash on Jan 10, 2013 13:46:21 GMT 1
I don't think those histories read too badly - at least they don't talk about Nissan building Austin 7s!!
Ed and Nigel are probably our gurus when it comes to this sort of thing though. I've got a German book from the mid-70s which is excellent.
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! ;D
and bring back quad headlights!! 
